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Thread: pure villager problems
  1. #21
    Warning: Off the wall pondering, musing, just some more or less random thoughts, and in no particular order.

    ~I have read countless posts about the challenges people encounter when working on max leveling crafting and gathering skills, and what it takes to master the craft they need, just so they can be sure to get/craft the best gear possible (a challenge which is even greater now, that all those extra, and very much random, stats were added). I have read posts where people complain about how much they have to gather, how long it takes, and how much clicking is involved, so much so, they feel it absolutely essential, to use auto clickers to get it all done (and motes in crafting... there's just never enough of those). I imagine to become a top level master crafter in one, and eventually all four classes, will require a lot of gathering, and clicking, and time.
    Why do people, willing to do all that clicking/gathering, asking for safe access to all levels, of all types of nodes, so they can become the best villager they possibly can, why, do they get shot down, by telling them they don't count, because they don't want to do combat?

    ~gathering basic supplies, like ore, wood, fish, and the plants, is only one part of the whole crafting business, also needed are farmed ingredients, and also loot type ingredients, such as leather, pelts, bones, silk etc, the latter will still have to come from the heroes doing combat, but that stuff can be part of trade; a master smithy, for example, can sell a top notch sword, for gold, and/or whatever loot type ingredients he might need (barter system comes to mind), he can also make a sword to order, at least when it comes to the things he has control over, such as level, lightning, or fury, how many runes, that kind of thing. Any excesses can always be sold to a NPC type vendor, just like they are now, or use the salvaging rods to salvage parts of the excess wares.

    ~it takes a lot to make the perfect gear, and you will have to make a lot of gear, before you will make the perfect gear, but it doesn't sell because there are not enough people needing it, even less if they all make it themselves...

    ~we only have one AH in Ardent, one single place in a growing world; imagine if Master Crafters had shops (which they can rent, like houses are rented), where they can display their wares, with a fixed price, and sell it to a hero that wants it... We could have a Master Smithy selling his wares in Trader's Path, a Master Chef specialising in potions with fishy ingredients, in Traven, and a Master Chef, that bakes all kinds of pies in Summer's Hollow, or, Old Verda for examples? We could also have shops in villages, but I think out in various mini hubs of the world, sounds more 'fun', plus it would encourage people to go to various places in world, rather than be stuck/trapped/hidden in villages; the new way to travel without runes, has already made it much more fun to travel places! (getting to all those places, at least for the first time, to activate the tele-pad, would require a player to either whack a few baddies along the way, or possibly hire a couple of heroes to act as body guards, yay, villagers working together with heroes, lol)

    ~at the moment people don't just level because it's there for them to do, heroes also level crafting, because they want to be sure to get the gear etc they want, because not only is the AH expensive, but it also can't be relied on to always have the items you need, and like it, or not, agree with it, or not, people, including friends and fellow guild mates come and go, I've seen people looking for people to help with making gear, and/or, adding runes to improve their gear. Why not give people who want to focus on villager type talents, the ability to develop their talents, and sell their wares in AH, in LF chat channel, or maybe in their very own, lovingly stocked, tiny little shop...

    ~odds are, that if a player reaches max level, be that hero, or villager, they will end up giving the other side a go, and most likely they will end up maxed as both, a hero, and a villager; I guess, what I would like to see, is, that there is the option to chose a different route, even if they all end up leading to the same thing: a person with max level hero, as well as max level villager.
    Last edited by Kaydee; 13.01.2018 at 11:02.
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaydee View Post
    ~odds are, that if a player reaches max level, be that hero, or villager, they will end up giving the other side a go, and most likely they will end up maxed as both, a hero, and a villager; I guess, what I would like to see, is, that there is the option to chose a different route, even if they all end up leading to the same thing: a person with max level hero, as well as max level villager.
    That last sentence summarizes quite nicely how I feel. It's all about giving players choices of how to play the game -- really, in what order to do things. My skills range from 1-6 lvls above my combat. I am currently at the point where I can't get the wild mats I need to maximize the recipes I have learned. I am in no rush, however, to level up combat and unlock the next two zones, which is what I would need to do in order to gain access to the wild nodes that my crafting and gathering skills would allow me to use. And I am well aware of the fact that once you reach lvl cap in any skill (including combat), you will be capped again in that same skill pretty quickly after the lvl cap is raised again. I'm at the point now where I would actually welcome elder lvls in crafting/gathering or possibly rebirthing in those skills....It's begun to get a little bit repetitive and boring after 4 years....

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaydee View Post
    ~it takes a lot to make the perfect gear, and you will have to make a lot of gear, before you will make the perfect gear, but it doesn't sell because there are not enough people needing it, even less if they all make it themselves...
    I think that the big issue here is the lack of networking. People who have the ability to make the gear have no idea of who might be looking to buy it. (Why would you make extras with your valuable resources when chances are that it simply won't sell?) Due to a lack of storage space, I don't have room to keep extra gear I make for myself indefinitely. I'm willing to craft on demand, but despite how hard I try, I rarely know who might be able to use the loot drops I pick up or who is willing to put the extras I craft into their "hope chest."

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaydee View Post
    ~at the moment people don't just level because it's there for them to do, heroes also level crafting, because they want to be sure to get the gear etc they want, because not only is the AH expensive, but it also can't be relied on to always have the items you need, and like it, or not, agree with it, or not, people, including friends and fellow guild mates come and go
    It's definitely true that players will come and go. However, it seems like people with a strong independence streak (who are able to keep themselves amused without the presence of side content) are the ones who tend to stick around the longest. I have kept my skills all at least a little bit ahead of my combat so that all of my toons can craft their own gear. I enjoy both combat AND the villager side of the game, BUT I like doing them in a balance that may differ from other players. I also spend plenty of time answering questions, helping other players with elder runs, participating in my guild, and posting on the forums, etc. I do lvl up both the combat AND the crafting/gathering side of things, but I like lvling combat more slowly and gathering/crafting faster.

    I can't do everything all at once, and one of the things that would make me quite happy (and which would make my life a bit easier) would be a mob-free, higher lvl version of Stone Gardens, so that I don't have to rely on my friends to get me the wilds that I can't quite yet get for myself. I'll unlock those zones sometime in the next 3-5 months (gauging by the snail-like pace that I like lvling up combat), but partly because of the situation I'm currently in, I'm quite sympathetic to the villager-only argument.

  3. #23
    Royal Guardian Angelina Copperscale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majenta View Post
    On the specific issue of new players crafting 30 + items and quitting because it is too much grind, I can certainly see why they might quit in those circumstances, but there is absolutely no reason at all why any new player needs to do this.

    Contrary to what many older players insist, there is no reason why you have to craft 30 + items at any level, and certainly not at low levels when you will outgrow the gear faster than you can make it.

    Perhaps it would help with player retention if older players stopped feeding erroneous information to the new players and gave them more reasonable advice that all they actually need to do is craft three items to get uncommon gear.

    What the 5 star recipes do allow is for the pure crafters to make better gear that they can sell to those who don't want to make it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaydee View Post
    I'm not sure what you mean with this bit, can you elaborate?
    I think they mean that players should satisfy themselves with less-than-best, i.e. "uncommon" gear. of course, that's from the standpoint of somebody that doesn't really seriously play MMOs. no serious player wants anything but the best possible gear. but they're saying you can play adequately with gear that's merely uncommon, and this is true for a casual player. they overlook the fact that serious players of course view the 5 stars to get the best possible gear as mandatory, the alternative being labelled a "casual" player, a vehement insult to serious MMO players.
    Last edited by Angelina Copperscale; 13.01.2018 at 23:58.

  4. #24
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    After reading all the above I would like to add a imaginative suggestion for further game development.
    A Gathering shield.
    A complex shield could be made by players who wish to follow the villager route. It will difficult to make and can only be worn after a player reaches the max lvl needed for shield on all skills ex combat (inc ranch and garden) It will require the use of all skills to complete. This shield will, when wore enable the player to access any zone to a certain lvl to reach a new quest unharmed. Then a quest can run alongside the main combat quest for keys but requires complex gathering or crafting to be done for rewards of xp to crafts only and ultimately a key.
    Shields could perhaps be lvled so new ones must be made to progress further in the game.
    For example
    Wooden shield Lvl 1-20
    Copper shield Lvl 21-30
    Bronze shield Lvl 36-40
    Silver shield lvl 40-45
    Gold shield lvl 46-50
    Ruby Shield lvl 51-56 you get the idea...
    This would give villagers a new challenge and the rest a new way to help lvl up our crafting skills so we can choose how we get the keys to a new zone.
    I think the game just need to balance a bit and give us all the right to choose what we want to be and how we want to play.

  5. #25
    Moderator IrishElf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaydee View Post
    I'm not sure what you mean with this bit, can you elaborate?
    When we all started after Starfall, none of us started with the best or the top level gear. You CAN use common, uncommon, rare, epic or legendary gear at any time and still be able to function. I know I started with a lot of uncommon gear and did OK, until after a while I found some good drops, made some better gear and was able to slowly move the numbers on my stats up.

    I made mistakes along the way, changed all my gear out a few times but kept moving forward. I made some huge boo-boo's by gnogmenting the wrong gear together and made legendary gear into common LOL!

    But some people tell others to only use or settle for legendary gear is being unkind and unfair, and yes I have seen people telling new and returning players just that. Yes, if possible having legendary is great, but I see some people constantly asking others to craft them legendary gear because they heard you have to get legendary from crafted gear. They do not understand that you get legendary from enhancing and you can only enhance in an improved village. I have crafted only a few items and used the uncommon gear, and not bothered making the 25-ish to get rare as well. The thing is, no one should be told what they need to use, but I think that is what some are seeing others do.

    We CAN bounty and do it quite well while using less than legendary gear, I have done just that on both test and live. And on live now I do have a lot of legendary, but also epic and rare. And my toon is doing pretty good at lvl 88.
    Last edited by IrishElf; 14.01.2018 at 13:11.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelina Copperscale View Post
    I think they mean that players should satisfy themselves with less-than-best, i.e. "uncommon" gear. of course, that's from the standpoint of somebody that doesn't really seriously play MMOs. no serious player wants anything but the best possible gear. but they're saying you can play adequately with gear that's merely uncommon, and this is true for a casual player. they overlook the fact that serious players of course view the 5 stars to get the best possible gear as mandatory, the alternative being labelled a "casual" player, a vehement insult to serious MMO players.
    Given that you clearly consider "casual" as the very worst of insults, I would appreciate if you wouldn't keep applying it to me.

    The point I was making is that a new player does not require to make 30 + items to get perfect gear.

    There are two reasons for this.
    1) At low levels, uncommon gear is more than good enough to allow you to kill everything in sight.
    2) Gathering the monster parts alone will level you up far beyond the level of the gear you are trying to make anyway.
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  7. #27
    User Rose Heart's Avatar
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    There should not be any back doors the traven Isles or stone gardens. Villagers should have Village only quests that come out of the village itself, Summer's Hollow, or Ardent. There should be no crossovers between the Villager and the hero that way there's no back doors no loops and no free rides for the Villager to get the high-level crafting zones. They are just like the Heroes going through combat to get to the high levels, but With Village only zones and quests.

    The Royal Charters and the traven medallions already provide the basic blueprint that could be applied to Village only Quests that can unlock various other regions for Gathering and crafting.
    Last edited by Rose Heart; 16.01.2018 at 17:47.

  8. #28
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    When I look at the design of this game it seems rather clear that the various jobs have been designed to work together and in order for that to happen, they need to be developed together. A well-balanced character is not a "hybrid" by any stretch of the imagination. If your character is well balanced, you are playing it the way the game was designed to be played. If you are trying to play a pure hero or villager, you are working at odds with the design. That's not to say you can't do exactly that if it is what you want to do, but why would anyone be surprised when doing so proves difficult?

    To begin with, I actually liked the balance in V&H, but I'm a little surprised that any casual players like myself are still around after the Starfall update. V&H has evolved from a whimsical, casual, social game, into something much more complex and hardcore. I have stuck with this game for a variety of reasons, but if I were starting it today, I doubt that I would stick with it for very long. At this point, I'm just trying to hold out for the long-promised side content "that never gets old" but if it does not come around this year, I'm doubtful that I'll still be around when it does.

    I can't think of a kind way to say this, so I'll just be blunt. If you are a casual style of player that is looking for a relaxed and social game, I no longer feel that you fit the target demographic for the new V&H. I'm not saying that you should leave; I'm just amazed that you are still here. Perhaps as a new generation of players come on board, a market will develop for that gear some of you want to hang around in the village and produce all day, but it's going to take a little while for that to happen. Then again, perhaps if threads like this continue to pop up, the devs will eventually get around to giving a path for pure villagers or heroes to advance. It would destroy the last vestige of what this game was designed to be, but at this point, I'm not really sure that matters anymore. We are so far removed from what we were, I no longer have any idea what we will be a year or two down the road.

  9. #29
    User Rose Heart's Avatar
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    Pure Heroes can already advance without touching a single Village skill. Therein actually lies the problem in that there is no path for Pure villager while a pure Hero has a clear and easy path.

    Inferior common and uncommon drops actually make it very easy for a hero only to progressed very quickly throughout the entire game. I firmly believe these drops should be removed and only rare or epic drops should remain.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rose Heart View Post
    Inferior common and uncommon drops actually make it very easy for a hero only to progressed very quickly throughout the entire game. I firmly believe these drops should be removed and only rare or epic drops should remain.
    This is simply not true. At least for a priest - we NEED crafted items to get heal/mass heal. Those spells are not found on dropped weapons. For other classes as well, there are feats that you simply cannot get from drops - you MUST get them on crafted weapons. I know of no one that completely skips crafting anymore. They used to, but since Starfall, those who DID skip crafting have been playing catch up, from what I've seen.